I'm sure that much of our discussion will result to discussing creation vs. evolution. To prevent confusion I have laid down some standard definitions of what a creationist will believe, what an evolutionist will believe.
- A 'Christian world view' will (and should) have a 'creationist' world view. A 'creationist' world view believes that the universe (and definitely the world) was created by god. A christian world view will further that definition by claiming that 'the great I AM', the God of the Israelites, the ONE and ONLY TRUE God, is in fact the creator and created everything.
- An 'evolutionist world view' believes that the universe 'came about' by chance and came from nothing at all. The world was created by chance, the moon was created by chance, Las Vegas was created by chance and human life was created by chance. The entire 'religion' of evolution is the theory of how everything came into being WITHOUT a God.
7 comments:
The thing that most interests me about this topic is how forward evolutionist are in claiming their views to be truth. If I am not mistaken isn't the burden of proof still in their court?
Some points...
"In the evolutionary system of thought there is no longer need or room for the supernatural. The earth was not created; it evolved. So did all the animals and plants that inhabit it, including our humanselves, mind and soul, as well as brain and body. So did religion. Evolutionary man can no longer take refuge from his loneliness by creeping for shelter into the arms of a divinized father figure whom he himself has created.
-Sir Julian Huxley (one of Darwin's greatest fans)
(That will sure give you hope for the future...)
With this idea comes...Subjectivism. As there is no longer any objective truth our basis of Ethics and Morals are reduced to personal preferences.
(Remember now, man has a sin nature.)
Where does subjective truth lead us?
Adultery - Over half of marriages end in divorce.
Abortion - The death toll in America alone is well over 30 million.
AIDS - More people have died worldwide that America has lost in all its wars combined.
That is absolutely correct John, evolutionists do have the burden of proof. Let's not forget that the "theory of evolution" is just that: a theory (a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural), you may need to remind people of that if you approach this topic in conversation. I had a co-worker in college argue with me that evolution is no longer a theory, because it had been proven. Also, keep in mind that a theory originates out of the scientific method: observation and data collection, hypothesis, experiment (testing of hypothesis), conclusion to validate or modify the hypothesis. So, an immediate problem lies in the very first step: observation and/or data collection. If we "evolved" from nothing: then obviously, who could have been there to make the first observation!?!
Additionally, the whole idea of family and love and all of the principles that are taught to us both in scripture and even in secular society fall apart if it's just natural selection and survival of the fittest: why start a family? Better to pro-create and have as many children as possible, and leave them to fend for themselves. If they are "naturally selected" and the "fittest": they will survive on their own. It is interesting that most evolutionists still believe in the idea of family, that could be a good place to start talking about the whole topic.
You people are too smart for me. Just stop all that researching and watch some T.V. read some Readers digest if any reading is needed, or play a video game so that you feel so brain dead that you became a subjectivist only so that you can rationalize why you eat breakfast at taco bell..."because it is healthy ...for you, but maybe not everybodyelse"
One of the main differences that I see between these two camps (The secular world view and the Christian world view) is the response to death and is seen most vividly when death is finally at the door, whether ones self, a friend or a family member is involved.
When death is crouching at ones door and it's arrival is imminently sure, those without Christ look behind them at the past to remember the "good times" only fearing the future (for good reasons I might add) or they abandon their memories, including their belief in philosophical naturalism (AKA: evolution) and cling to a false hope of going to better place.
But when he who knows the Truth, who has the Son and thus the Father being filled with the gift of the His comforting Spirit, reaches the end of his race, with his prize looming in the horizon, this person only cries out with great joy "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1). For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens (2nd Cor 5:1) Go ahead world, bury my perishable body in that hole, for I have been redeemed, it is well with my soul.”
I never knew a person, while on their death bed, who wanted me to remind them of the theory of evolution, or the survival of the fittest, or that we are nothing but a cosmic accident and so was their life. When death comes for a non-believer these silly little sinful excuses for why they “exchanged the truth for a lie” no longer are needed nor are they desired. This faulty reasoning once brought comfort to them during their lifestyle of idolatry, but when death arrives, so does reality and hope is the only asset worth investing in.
I included an article which I found relevant to the discussion:
A TALE OF TWO FUNERALS By Gene Edward Veith
A young man I knew died in a tragic traffic car accident. His death was utterably sad. At his funeral, his friends were all wearing T-shirts adorned with his picture. At the front of the church were heaped up flowers, footballs, and stuffed animals. On top of his coffin was a picture from his senior prom. The service began with a recording of his favorite song, a heavy metal power ballad. The preacher gave a eulogy, praising how the teenager was such a good friend, such a good person, recounting some of the funny things he used to say, telling about the dreams he had for his life. Everybody in the church was crying.
Then his best friend got up to say a few words. He was sobbing. He finally croaked out his good-bye, as the congregation joined his sobs. His girlfriend recited a poem she wrote about how much she loved him. Then, the boy’s grief-stricken father had to get up in front of everybody to talk about his son.
As if all of this emotion were not wrenching enough, the funeral director next played a video, showing highlights of the boy’s life — his baby pictures, playing with his friends, enjoying Christmas with his family, waving at the camera.
There was not a dry eye in the house. People said what a beautiful funeral it was.
Another funeral I attended was of another young person who died a tragic death, one that was even more senseless and horrible. She had been raped and murdered by a serial killer. (I was one of the elders on duty. My job was to keep the news media away from the family.)
At this funeral, the congregation sang old hymns. They were in a minor key, but the lyrics centered on the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Then grievers joined together in a responsive reading of the Word of God.
The pastor, garbed in black, read more texts from the Bible. Instead of a eulogy, the pastor recited the facts of the girl’s life, emphasizing her baptism, her catechesis, her confession of faith. He described how she joined the church, her conformation, and her regular reception of the Lord’s Supper.
The pastor, preaching from the Bible, gave a sermon on our travails in this wicked world, on how the Son of God entered our sinful condition, how in His sacrifice and His promises, we have a sure and certain hope that this poor child has entered into everlasting joy. The justice of God will be manifest, and so will His mercy, and He will wipe away every tear.
We sang some more hymns. The mood was sad and somber, but the Word of God that permeated the whole service was like a lifeline. Or, rather, like a strong arm supporting us in our grief. Yes, we cried, but the funeral gave us strength.
Our culture does not know how to handle death. We insulate ourselves from it. The dying pass away out of sight.
We are terrified of death. And so we sentimentalize it.
The contemporary funeral deals with grief by indulging it, even feeding it. A successful funeral — with its heart wrenching personal testimonials, its parade of mourners pouring out their anguish, the emotional manipulation of the congregation — works by creating an emotional catharsis. The upsurge of feeling can indeed feel cleansing. As at the ending of a tragedy, the emotions are purged. The bereaved feel drained. The aftermath, in Milton’s words, is “calm of mind, all passions spent.” The grievers really do feel better.
But how different is a traditional Christian funeral.
In a Christian service of the burial of the dead, the mourner’s grief is fully acknowledged and shared. But it is channeled into contemplation and prayer. The grievers are given not catharsis but consolation.
That consolation is not to be found in how good of a guy the dear departed was. Even Christian funerals sometimes miss this point.
My former pastor refused to deliver eulogies. It is not ?fitting, he would say, nor is it comforting, to dwell at a funeral on the dead person’s good works. When we die, we dare not stand before God claiming how good we are. So that must not be the emphasis at a funeral.
The dead person’s only hope is the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is the only hope of the grievers at the funeral, who, having been forced to confront the reality of death, tend to be uniquely receptive to spiritual truth.
My pastor would deflect attention from the person who died to the Person who died and rose again. He would preach Jesus — the cross, the atonement, the imputation of His righteousness, the resurrection — as the victor over death, hell, and the grave.
He would not preach this into a vacuum, but into the hearts of the grieving family and friends. He would connect Christ’s resurrection to the resurrection of their loved one and to theirs.
We did not leave this funeral drained, but comforted. He moved us from desolation to faith. We still hurt, but we were given hope, not in ourselves — at a funeral we experience as at no other time our frailty and helplessness — but in Someone stronger at a time when we need strength. ■
"Dr. Gene Edward Veith is academic dean of Patrick
Henry College in Purcellville, Virginia, and
director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia
Theological Seminary in Saint Louis, Missouri.
TABLETALK • APRIL 2007 63"
One more thing. This weeks discussion should not be thought of as "Science VS Christianity" because Science is a great ally to Christianity. This weeks discussion (and correct me if I am wrong Parker) is about so called "Scientific Reason". In other words, this is when Philosophers put on white garments and call themselves scientists.
Science is based on evidence and that, we as Christians have plenty of. Whether it is the Bible and what it says geographically,scientifically,historically or if it on the person of Christ, an empty tomb, the resurrection etc....we got loads of evidence and more on the way with every discovery that will be made in the future.
So let me remind us all what this is about, in my opinion, "faulty scientific reasoning" or "philosophical ideas" and their consequences when thought of as conclusive evidence,when in fact they are not and which usually end up as a direct contradistinction when tested in light of The Word of God.
http://beta.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/07/17/chimps.on.treadmills.reut/index.html
Here is prove!!! OH MY
I've just 'stumbled upon' some web sites that i think are very interesting (they are listed at the bottom of the post). Here is some strong evidence of ancient civilizations that came to the 'new world' such as the Celts, Romans, and yes, the Phoenicians and Hebrews!!
The belief of so called 'scientific reason' that is commonly tought in our public schools does NOT want you to believe that ancient peoples were smart because it goes against there thoery (i.e. chimpanzees 'evolving' into humans, gradually getting smarter as time goes on). Therefore, they will not, at all costs, alow the public to see evidence that displays the contrary to their thoery so that they can 'prove' they are right without competition. But they are not right (thankfully!). Ancient civilizations were in fact VERY smart and VERY advanced. More and more evidence is found of trade routs that existed 300 years before the time of Christ! That means that trade and commerse did not exist in the americas until a nice n' easy, sum total of 2000 years AFTER ancient "less intelligent folk" did it FIRST!
Hmmm...let us have this settle in for a few minutes...so anciets knew how to do trade halfway across the world BEFORE westeren europe did, and people are suposed to be evolving and getting smarter as time goes on...hmm...can you figure this one out using an evolutionistic world view? nope. me niether.
please read this articles! (they're not long! :) )
http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/israelites.html
http://paranormal.about.com/library
/weekly/aa080700a.htm
Parker
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